The 4350water Blog highlights some of the issues relating to proposals for potable reuse in Toowoomba and South East Qld. 4350water blog looks at related political issues as well.

Thursday, July 23, 2009

Toowoomba Regional Council set to blame rate rise on 32,330 NO voters ...

You can see it coming.

Toowoomba Regional Council has delayed the announcement of its Budget and rate hikes for the coming year until 28 July, the eve of the recycled water poll anniversary.

Rates will go up and the Toowoomba Regional Council need someone to blame.

They can't blame the amalgamation because Anna Bligh won't be happy.

They can't blame their own failure to obtain State and Federal funds for infrastructure because the one thing this Council will never do is accept blame for its own shortcomings.

The 3rd anniversary of the recycled water poll is then a real opportunity to lay blame for the rate rise on those pesky NO voters, all 32,330 of them.

It must be their fault.

If only the Council had been able to proceed with former Mayor Thorley's recycled water white elephant, Toowoomba would have been saved the costs of the Wivenhoe pipeline.

Never mind that the former Toowoomba City Council studiously avoided telling anyone what the real cost of the recycled water white elephant would have been.

Somewhere in the range of $200 million to $250 million ++ is a pretty good guess - if it had ever worked at all. And an accompanying debt burden which would probably have bankrupted the city's finances. And no real solution to Toowoomba's water source issues.

That would have been the true legacy of the Toowoomba City Council.

Still, they will try to blame the NO voters.

The Chronicle will probably phone the former Mayor and some of the former Councillors for their comments. They'll all blame the NO voters too, not just for the rate increases but for also losing their comfortable jobs and gourmet sandwiches. Unhappy in defeat.

The Chronicle may also seek comment from some of the more noteworthy Toowoomba Regional Council employees. They will probably say that their recycled water ideas were right and the rate hikes prove it. They will just never admit to what would have been the true cost of their recycled water folly.

Mayor Taylor will probably even add that it's not his fault, it's someone else's fault - it always is.

So that's what the Toowoomba Regional Council may be planning. Or has the rug just been pulled out from underneath them ...


Anonymous Anonymous said...

No-one will tell the community that in this time of drought there is no stuff from the sewage plant to recycle.
Because of a contract signed off by the previous council, Acland Coal Mine has dibs on the A+ class water from Wytella. There is none spare to do any thing else with. They also get good money from this sale of that water.
We are on such strict restrictions there is none left over that could go through the membranes in their plant so it is usless playing this blame game.

To-day there is also too much scientific evidence to prove that processed sewage is not safe to drink and the people have wised up.

8:36 AM, July 23, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah, vintage 4350water. I have noticed over the years, different writing styles and formats on this blog but this is from the original blogger. Good stuff!

10:06 AM, July 23, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Probably what they're planning.

10:22 AM, July 24, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cr. Paul Antonio has in the last few days told a service club that we will NOT run out of water!

This has always been the case or they would have had to cancel the Carnival of Flowers and The Gospel Festival this year at least due to all of the thousands of extra people these two events bring to our area and all the extra water they consume from our meager supply.

If one watched the ABC's 4 Corners the other night they would have seen the large area that the Artisan Basin covers and all of the inflow it would have received from the deluge this year.
This regional council should be sinking the next Artisan bore and at a more reasonable cost than this bloody pipeline from the Brisbane water.
It is a fraction of the cost and almost the same amount of water.

I along with a lot of other people would like to know what has happened to the salty bore near Wetalla plant or is it going out to Acland mines?

3:30 PM, July 24, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Streuth, you guys carry on! Give it a rest and move on! The rest of us have.

The Toowoomba water issue has been resoloved. The proposal to recycle water has been defeated, and so Toowoomba will be getting it's future supply from the south east grid. TRC are now selling the effluent from Wetalla to the coal mine at a very good price. End of story.

7:06 AM, July 25, 2009

Blogger Concerned Ratepayer said...

Nice sentiment but this is politics and the blame game over rate rises may be about to begin.

10:52 AM, July 25, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

We will never go away while the fate of our water supply is in the hands of people like Mr Kevin Flanagan.

3:50 PM, July 25, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

He must be some kind of popular dude!

6:04 PM, July 25, 2009

Anonymous Mr T said...

Anon 7:06am - the issue won't be resolved until the whole concept of drinking recycled sewage water is completely dead and buried. We will never accept it - remember that.
I fear the TRC/State Government is planning to pump their recycled sewage water up the Wivenhoe-Cressbrook pipeline.
Then the fight will start again.

8:47 PM, July 25, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr T- you need to get used to the fact that over the next 5 to 10 years, the augmentation of potable supplies with purified recyceled water will occur accross the whole country. The younger generations, who have not been tainted with the BS from the anti campaign, will demand it has a cheaper less energy intensive source to augment existing systems.

There is still a lot of work and study being done in the field of recycled water and desalination in general, and in the current population mindset of the need to reduce energy use, governments will not be able to ignor introducing these modes of water supply. Any government will promise anything to get into or stay in power, but once there and confronted with the realities of the situation, views change.

Perth will be introducing a potable recyeled scheme over the next view years where the water will suppliment their groundwater supplies, Sydney is still considering an IPR system on the north shore, A Melbourne group is putting a recycled scheme forward as a cheaper more efficient system then the proposed desalination scheme, Canberra may still go ahead as a cheaper alternative than piping water from the Snowy mountains, and the three Brisbane AWT plants are just about ready to go, if they are not already. I would think that even before the dams reach 40% that this system will be turned on. A government does not spend $2.5 billion dollars on a system and then just not use it, adn with the population of the south east corner growing, and the threat of another El nino and a drier summer the government will need to ensure that every tap of water supply is turned on to maintain supply.

The people who are anti recycling are still there, and yes can make some noise when required, but over time - 5 to 10 years - they will simply be ignored.

8:42 AM, July 26, 2009

Anonymous Mr T said...

Anon 8:42am - you appear to love the idea of drinking recycled sewage water - do you have a vested interest in this commercial enterprise?

Perhaps you can provide the proof that drinking this stuff is safe - no-one else has. The State Government's "proof" is risk studies & irrelevant studies on livestock and crops.

When we had a referendum here on the subject, the drinkng of recycled sewage water was comprehensively rejected (democratically) by the people. And I think this result would be replicated in any referendum held in the country. So, Mr Anon 8:42am, do you have contempt for democracy as well - are you one of those university educated "useful idiots" so loved by Lenin?

You and your cohorts in government may force recycled sewage water on the people (for profit), but when something goes wrong and many people get sick or die, what are you going to do? I presume you know the biggest and cheapest reverse osmosis membrane manufacturers are Chinese / Indian. I have been doing investigative work lately on componentry that I eventually found was sourced from China & India - obviously the words "quality control" have no counterpart in the Indian and Chinese languages. And don't forget to throw in good ol' human error - as evidenced recently with the fluoride overdosing debacle.

Unfortunately, you are right - you and your ilk will probably win with the force of law on your side - but the people will lose big-time. Don't forget though, that some of those people will be your descendants.

11:13 AM, July 26, 2009

Blogger Concerned Ratepayer said...

Some thoughts:

The younger generation doesn't care about their water being produced by cheaper energy. And they're certainly not going to demand recycled water because they are told it is more energy efficient.

One of the few remaining arguments for recycled water used by some is that it uses less energy than seawater desalination. What happens when this no longer applies? Seawater desalination is becoming more energy efficient. What happens when so-called green power is used for seawater desalination? Oops, no more 'advantage'.

The BS from the anti-campaign wasn't so BS when you look at the problems experienced by Brisbane. Trust us Anna Bligh said. What a mistake. Spills, wrong connections, and they can't even get flouride correct. What about the 7 Barriers myth - that first Barrier is a great one as everyone found out in Brisbane - Qld Health and the Brisbane City Council tried to duck responsibility for Barrier 1 so quickly it was laughable.

Recycled water for potable use will always remain the quick and dirty fix to water source issues. Just dump it in the dam and make people drink it. It is not a rain-independent source of water. It does not drought-proof towns and cities. It is however particularly useful for industrial users. Why not make them use it?

Many many NO voters in Toowoomba objected to the secret and underhanded way the whole recycled water issue was approached in Toowoomba. The proposal was cobbled together in secret meetings and the Council refused to discuss it with the people of Toowoomba. Remember those empty Councillor chairs at the meeting in Toowoomba? Remember the former Mayor wouldn't appear in public in Toowoomba to discuss recycled water but would run off to conferences in Brisbane and Sydney and tell people what a wonderful thing it was she was doing for Toowoomba?

Many many NO voters objected to the slick half-truths from Council, refusing to examine other options correctly, stating things about recycled water that the most minimal research would debunk. Remember, nothing got through the membranes and you were a 'flat-earther' if you thought otherwise. It was a case of thinking they knew better than the voters and couldn't care less what they thought.

Many many Toowoomba residents thought it was incredibly stupid for the Council to want to put bore water on the parks and gardens but make people drink recycled water. But they thought it was a wonderful idea.

And the result? Voters overwhelming said we don't trust this Council, we don't trust recycled water for potable use.

And where are they now? Most of the Yes Councillors were sacked at the last election. Those who ran again at the more recent by-election lost badly. Some now seem aimless in their lives (without saying too much). The former Mayor of course left Toowoomba as she'd always planned. Almost two years later, she still can't sell her house. Maybe no-one wants it when they find out who owns it. After all the money she wasted in Toowoomba and all the ratepayers' money which was paid to her, maybe people just can't bring themselves to put another dollar into her pocket.

1:11 PM, July 26, 2009

Blogger Concerned Ratepayer said...

And after all the BS, yet more BS (response in capitals):

Perth will be introducing a potable recyeled scheme over the next view years where the water will suppliment their groundwater supplies [THERE IS A PILOT PROJECT WHICH IS LOOKING AT A LONG-TERM SCHEME - NOT IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS. PERTH ALREADY HAS ONE SEAWATER DESAL PLANT AND IS ABOUT TO START ITS SECOND], Sydney is still considering an IPR system on the north shore [NOT FOR POTABLE USE], A Melbourne group is putting a recycled scheme forward as a cheaper more efficient system then the proposed desalination scheme [NOT GOING TO HAPPEN - THE SEAWATER DESAL PLANT IS GOING AHEAD. SYDNEY, MELBOURNE, ADELAIDE AND PERTH WILL ALL HAVE SEAWATER DESAL PLANTS], Canberra may still go ahead as a cheaper alternative than piping water from the Snowy mountains [NOT GOING TO HAPPEN - ONE THING IS FOR SURE THE POLITICIANS AREN'T GOING TO DRINK IT], and the three Brisbane AWT plants are just about ready to go, if they are not already. I would think that even before the dams reach 40% that this system will be turned on. [THOUGHT THEY WERE READY - ANNA BLIGH TELLS US SO - WHY NOT FORCE INDUSTRY TO USE IT LIKE SINGAPORE - PRICE IT SO THEY WILL WANT TO BUY IT] A government does not spend $2.5 billion dollars on a system and then just not use it [THIS IS THE QLD GOVERNMENT WHICH SPENT $60 MILLION PLUS LAST YEAR ON INDOOR PLANTS, STATIONERY AND SUBSCRIPTIONS, WITH $30 MILLION OF THAT SPENT BY QLD HEALTH. HOW MUCH VACANT OFFICE SPACE DOES QLD HEALTH SIT ON? THEY DON'T CARE HOW MUCH MONEY IS WASTED], adn with the population of the south east corner growing, and the threat of another El nino and a drier summer the government will need to ensure that every tap of water supply is turned on to maintain supply. [OOPS, THE "IT'S NEVER GOING TO RAIN AGAIN" ARGUMENT REARS ITS UGLY HEAD ONCE MORE. THE BRISBANE DAMS JUST HIT 77% - TOO SOON FOR THAT ARGUMENT! AND REMEMBER RECYCLED WATER IS NOT A RAIN-INDEPENDENT SOURCE OF WATER]


1:11 PM, July 26, 2009

Anonymous rloader said...

As usual, the people come last in line - bad luck if they get sick and they will pay through the nose for it too. Typical Socialist BS. The only Australians they care about are those who are helping them destroy this country whether through massive debt, massive immigration, massive infrastructure which will be unable to cope with the influx of migrants who will be unable to hold down a job in Australia as they are unemployable - more suited to blowing themselves up.
Still, as someone else pointed out these Socialists in this country have children and grandchildren too. Are they so deluded that they are willing to destroy their own families with recycled water, life on the dole - no jobs - and that other furphy - emissions trading credits and climate change. Talk about the lucky country! Toowoomba Regional Council should start thinking what they are really supporting. It goes way deeper than blaming the people who stood up for their beliefs regarding the safety of their water supply - a large majority of the population by the way.

4:56 PM, July 26, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think anon. was talking about internal migration. Don't forget, unless you are indigenous, we were all immigrants to the land down under at some point.

5:39 PM, July 26, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is marvellous how little the story line has changed since 2005 but how the general population has made it their mission to become educated about the issue and they reject it.

They still can not produce a city or town who are drinking their own sewage so that we can study the results on their health and well being.

Singapore has been trotted out as an example as late as a few weeks ago when a fool of a politician from Western Australia used it as an example as to why they might have recycled sewage over there. He said that it is safe and that they drink it and that is not so.
They must all get onto these junkets and come back brain washed.

That's what happened to our previous Mayor when she went away to America in 2005 with Keviee Flanagan.
After a lot of loud swearing and arguing in the LA airport she was converted to a plan that had lain dormatant in a draw and rejected by previous Mayors of Toowoomba.

So you see there is where Australia's recycled sewage saga started.
It all sounded like a good idea to a ambitious road engineer and I think it still does!

8:34 PM, July 26, 2009

Anonymous Mr T said...

Even the "indigenous" were immigrants at some time.

It's unfortunate for us, but if all these "special interest" groups - recycled sewage water proponents, Rudd's ETS (Employment Termination Scheme), Enviro-fascists, Goldman Sachs & Al Gore and every other greedy, and evil, group get their way - the end result will most likely be another Dark Age - a world dominated by China and the Islamo-fascists.

Isn't greed a wonderful thing?

8:58 PM, July 26, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Goldman Sachs????

9:39 PM, July 26, 2009

Anonymous Mr T said...

Anon 9:39 PM, July 26, 2009

Goldman Sachs????

Yeah - do some research - the big money guys behind the anthropogenic global warming scam.

8:00 PM, July 27, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

No voters - sorest bunch of winners I ever saw

10:04 PM, July 27, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe because the government wanted to punish us for winning. You can win but we'll change the goal posts.

12:35 AM, July 28, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you ear about Windhoek in Namibia ?

Wasterwater are following 13 treatments steps to produce a high quality water. After that, the recycled water is the primary source for drinking water.

Studies are regularly realized by international organizations and never someone gets sick or die in this city.

12:34 AM, August 22, 2009

Blogger Concerned Ratepayer said...

We've all heard about Windhoek and all its problems with its recycled water project.

But have you heard about the nearby seawater desalination plants in that country?

And why should a first world city like Toowoomba or Brisbane have to adopt something used in the third world because they have no other option?

10:22 AM, August 22, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You say that developped countries can not do better than us ???

Don't you think that because they haven't other option to make drinking water, they are very careful with this solution of recycling water ?

11:53 PM, August 24, 2009

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't understand the previous comment

12:44 AM, August 25, 2009


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